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14 Responses to “‘Who could say no to a million kids?’”

1. Elizabeth Marquardt says:

   12.16.2012 at 6:50 PM

   And a question for the comment section: Does anyone think it is possible for the gun control debate to break free of/move beyond the culture wars? If yes, what would it take?
2. ki sarita says:

   12.16.2012 at 7:24 PM

   I support firearm regulation but I do not like the idea of adults using children to make their political point.

   Aside from the fact that I’d shy away long and hard during these times from bringing my kids to a massive huge open public event, for safety reasons.
3. ki sarita says:

   12.16.2012 at 7:36 PM

   At Hector; you need not place your faith in me; the requirements for obtaining a firearem license are easily found at the Israeli department of public security HERE
   http://mops.gov.il/Audiences/FireArms/Pages/FirearmsLicences.aspx

   Did I mention that to receive the license the applicant must also undergo training by a recognized firearm training program? And there are regulations for renewal? the permit isn’t indefinite.

   You are correct that settlers in the occupied territories are allowed to get away way to much. It is a huge political problem.

   However even in Israel proper, schools as I said have security guards, and on outings children are accompanied by a trained, licensed, armed security guard.

   Yes, weapons in Israel are regulated. There is no concept of any fundamental right to bear arms. The presence of hired, licensed, professional armed guards is no contradiction to this.
4. ki sarita says:

   12.16.2012 at 7:51 PM

   I first became sensitive to adults using kids to prove their political points, oddly enough in the gay marriage advertising.
   It also reminded me of when my Mom took me to march and demonstrate for expansion of school bus service. I couldn’t have cared less about school buses, I was perfectly happy walking and/ or having my folks drive me to school in the car……
   At the time I felt demeaned but didn’t know how to express it, I was only 10.
5. Barry Deutsch says:

   12.16.2012 at 8:17 PM

   I have a really hard time seeing how guns and the culture wars can be disassociated. I think that guns are actually even more of a core cultural issue, in the US, than either abortion or gay marriage.

   For that reason, I wish this march would focus (or co-focus) on publicly-provided mental health services, rather than being focused mainly on guns. I think mental health treatment is an area where there’s a much better chance of making some actual policy progress.
6. Clarence says:

   12.16.2012 at 10:18 PM

   OMG I find myself agreeing with Barry Deutsch.

   And Ms Marqaudt if you try to organize such a march I’ll be sure to let the progun forces know ahead of time so they can make commercials about how your March wants to make things easier for 16 and 17 year old gangbangers to kill each other and innocent people. Because that’s who the majority of “children” (anyone under 18 to most antigunners) killed really are. Accidental shooting deaths and things like that massacre the other day are very rare dangers to the lives of our pre-teens. And quite simply, like a few here, I’m sick of children being used as pawns to score cheap political points.
7. Diane M says:

   12.16.2012 at 10:20 PM

   One step would be to talk about gun safety and regulation, not control. We don’t need to take away everyone’s guns.

   Another step would be to have a group as rich as the NRA paying for advertisements. I suppose a more practical idea would be to try to change the minds of young people.
8. JHW says:

   12.16.2012 at 10:32 PM

   Clarence: As a heuristic, I tend to take policy positions that are the opposite of those that involve dismissing the violent deaths of young people.
9. Clarence says:

   12.16.2012 at 11:09 PM

   JHW:
   And as a heuristic, I tend to avoid dishonesty.
   Such as pretending that most children killed by guns are under ten and sitting peacefully in a classroom or playing with daddy’s unlocked and loaded firearm. No, most of them are involved in street violence, tend to be over the age of 14 or 15, and often have a juvenile record first.

   Anyway as I see this is already starting on Facebook, I am alerting the appropriate people and organizations.
   Reasoned dialogue is fine. Trying to mix children and shame isn’t.
10. Barry Deutsch says:

    12.16.2012 at 11:51 PM

    No, most of them are involved in street violence, tend to be over the age of 14 or 15, and often have a juvenile record first.

    Even if this is true – and although it sounds plausible, it would be more persuasive if you had included a link to a legitimate source supporting your claims – surely we agree that the death of minors is tragic even if many of the minors are over 14 and have JV records.

    Furthermore, that small children who have no JV records sometimes die of gun violence is true beyond any doubt. You seem to be saying that because it is uncommon, it’s not a reasonable focus for political activism.

    I do agree that, insofar as anyone’s actively being deceptive, that’s a problem. But I think you’re sort of making a mountain out of a molehill. Random violence affecting schoolchildren may not be as common a problem as people believe, but that doesn’t mean that wanting the problem reduced is wrongheaded.
11. Clarence says:

    12.17.2012 at 1:05 AM

    Barry Deutsch:

    While this is not all the information you seek, this will do for a start. Here is the total of murders (and weapons used in those murders) for all age ranges. This is the 2011 FBI Crime in The United States report:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-9

    At this point, I fail to see how banning “assault rifles” (or per the previous ban many weapons that merely LOOK military) is going to save the lives of most of those 14 to 16 year olds. On the other hand some activism based on making those kids lives better and gangs or drugs or both less enticing and less of danger to ruining their chances for normal lives might help.
12. David Cary Hart says:

    12.17.2012 at 1:35 PM

    Congress can most certainly ignore them – and probably will. In case you haven’t noticed, in 2010 we elected a whole lot of crazy people to Congress. While one of the nuttier of the lot (Allen West) got whacked in November, many of them were re-elected in 2012. Many of these people have a gun fetish. Indeed, the guy who is replacing DeMint in the Senate is wed to the absurdity that we should have no gun regulations whatsoever.

    Heller does not prevent some very serious gun control – at least insofar as accountability is concerned. The question is whether or not Congress has the fortitude.
13. David Cary Hart says:

    12.17.2012 at 1:42 PM

    Barry:

    Guns and the culture war are often in complete sync. For example: http://bit.ly/UDZdjd

    BTW, as a survivor of gun violence I collected some of my thoughts here. It’s not my most coherent polemic and some of this I had posted here at FS.
14. ki sarita says:

    12.18.2012 at 12:08 PM

    David, you can very well say congress can ignore kids marching- and so would I- because its not the kids saying anything, it’s the parents trying to talk through them.